What if I told you that a woman is forced to have her child to give birth at arraignment court? Hell of a story that happens to be true, put it up full mass. Here we go. A woman gave [00:00:16] birth to a baby boy in a Brooklyn courtroom during her arraignment hearing for a drug possession charge on May 15th. at 11.30 p.m. at night. Public defenders allege that she [00:00:37] was shackled during the birth and she was left without medical care. We'll take you through the conflicting accounts of what happened that night. Now I want to remind you the public [00:00:53] defenders are making this proclamation about their client. A public defender is an appointed defense attorney, yes. But they are paid by the same entity that pays the prosecutor. My [00:01:10] point is typically, they don't go to the media in order to besmirch opposing counsel or the court because they're employed by said agency. So it's a big deal when you hear a public defender [00:01:28] publicly defend. There's more. Her lawyer went to Sharp, said, quote, we saw it. She didn't have to say anything. We were like, oh okay, this is happening, like now? End quote. According [00:01:48] to Mr. Sharp, court officer sprang into action and minutes before midnight, the baby arrived. Ms. Rodanzo delivered a, quote, bouncing baby boy, Mr. Sharp said. He did not know the newborn had been named. Quote, it was a joyful and sad situation given the circumstances. She was [00:02:09] there in the first place for what we would consider low level charges, but still shackled while in arraignment court and giving birth. Ms. Rodanzo was arrested on Thursday for [00:02:25] drug possession and trespassing. The police said she was on the roof of her own building. in the Nostrand House, a public housing complex in Brooklyn. She was there according to the [00:02:48] authorities without authorization to be on said roof. Brooklyn is an interesting space as it relates to law enforcement and community. When the arresting officers searched her, [00:03:06] They found a small amount of heroin and cocaine according to the officials. Now, it is possible that Ms. Rodanzo could have a drug problem, which makes it a mental health element, where [00:03:27] she was holding it for someone or selling it. These are all circumstantial dynamics. Anytime the police search you. They are able to search you for weapons. It's called pat down. It's [00:03:44] very familiar case law that a first year law student has to learn in reference to what cops can do and cannot do. They can always pat you down for their safety. They can always [00:04:01] pat you down for their safety. Now if they something that seems to be a weapon. They can then enter into that particular area of your clothing to disarm you. Just keep that in mind. When she was arrested, when she was arrested, Ms. Rodanzo was wearing baggy clothes and did [00:04:22] not mention that she was pregnant, according to the official police report. She initially declined medical attention, but later complained that she was feeling sick from taking drugs according to the police report. Officers then took her to South Brooklyn Health at 3.30 [00:04:41] AM on Friday. After Ms. Rodanzo's arrest, police officers took her to a hospital. She was discharged from that hospital that same day Friday evening. Then officers took her to arraignment court, that's criminal court in Brooklyn, to be arraigned or formally charged. Now contrast that reporting [00:05:02] with this interview with a public defender who was really in the room during the birth. Once again, public defender, officer of the court, sworn officer of the court could lose [00:05:20] their license to practice law if they lie. The police typically do not fear losing their license to practice law enforcement. It's called post certification. They typically are not in the same fear of losing that certification. If they lie, put her up full mass. [00:05:44] a public defender with a legal aid society, her name is Jen Kovacs, disputes went in Sharpe's account as he was not even there according to this public defender. And that his statement, [00:06:03] quote, this is a direct quote, misrepresents the reality in the courtroom that night, which was complete violence, end quote. As I said, just remember who pays who, okay? There's more. A lawyer is not telling the truth about his participation that evening. And for this to [00:06:27] be depicted as a, quote, bouncing baby boy is materially false. It undermines the violence, lack of dignity, and safety of the whole situation. She was handcuffed behind her back throughout [00:06:51] the birth. There was no doctor available. So the court officer took the lead. It was at least 20 minutes before EMTs showed up. And at that point, the baby had already been born. [00:07:09] The handcuffs did not come off before the baby was born. I'm skeptical that he even has spoken to his client to get consent, consent to be talking to the press like that. It's been [00:07:33] haunting me ever since this woman had a right to privacy, to dignity. to sterility. Birth is such a violent thing even in the best of circumstances for her to have the people participating [00:07:51] in her criminal arraignment, the people being the prosecutors. Now watching her give birth is such a violation. I felt absolutely powerless. They were asking us for towels, shirts. sweaters [00:08:12] because the system doesn't have things like that to provide to people in custody. The woman has been over 24 hours in custody and was unable to pick up her infant or remove [00:08:30] her own clothing after she gave birth. There's actually more. But the Legal Aid Society public defender makes a compelling and relevant point. A birth is typically not an easy process for [00:08:51] a woman, typically. And to have what seems to be a bunch of men with absolutely no medical training, partaking in the moment. while she's still handcuffed or shackled behind her back, [00:09:16] seems inhumane. But there's more, joint statement from the Legal Aid Society. Brooklyn Defender Services, New York County Defender Services, the Bronx Defenders and Neighborhood Defender Services of Harlem also alleges that courtroom staff joked during the incident and that legal [00:09:38] proceedings and prosecutorial decisions continued while Ms. Rodanzo endured an active medical emergency. They did not even suspend normative court practices. And why would you not believe that? If they would not suspend the normative practice of having a woman handcuffed behind [00:09:58] her back for a low level drug offense while giving birth in a reinment court, why do you think they will suspend normative courtroom procedures for said birth? The troubling reality is this. At least three people have died while waiting for arraignments in this same court [00:10:20] building over the last year. They're dead. Advocates have pointed out quote earlier this year. eh Hundreds of Brooklynites were detained after arrest for more than 24 hours before seeing [00:10:36] a judge a violation of their rights under the law. The Association of Legal Advocates and Attorney said in a statement adding that conditions in the courthouse are quote unacceptable. Kovacs the attorney added more context in Brooklyn arrest for misdemeanor. drug offenses went [00:10:56] up 88 % from 2021 to 2024. Before I give you the rest, this is indicative of a policy change [00:11:16] with how the law is enforced. All of a sudden, damn near 90 % of individuals did not start using some type of illicit drug. This is an enforcement measure, low level misdemeanor [00:11:36] enforcement measure. It's easy pickings for them. The individuals typically don't have the financial capacity to fight back. Over 90 % of all criminal defendants in Brooklyn will [00:11:54] require a public defender? Why? Because of their income. That's why. According to a report put out uh by John Jay, so many of the cases that I've seen in my last five years of practice [00:12:13] did not have to involve arrests and take somebody into custody. They could have been resolved with a desk appearance ticket. I'm talking about fare evasion, trespassing, obstruction of governmental administration. [00:12:29] Petite larceny, not petty, petite. Now there's, on Eric Adams, former mayor, we see more low level arrests and they're getting prosecuted according to the same John Jay study. Brooklyn [00:12:49] prosecutors only declined to prosecute 14 % of misdemeanor charges. When the DA decides to prosecute, that's more time locked up. The person has to be moved to central booking. They have to have their iris scanned. It's another eight hours in detention, waiting to [00:13:08] get in front of a judge. There's another potential point of intervention. The judge can just dismiss the case outright. But the judges don't want to lose their job. You see, if they dismiss the case, and then something goes wrong, a lot of the judges and arraignments are new judges. [00:13:24] They're not there to try to solve. the underlying structural problems that brought everyone into their courtroom. In the courtroom, the job is to move the bodies. quickly. So on Monday, [00:13:40] at least 150 legal advocates, public defenders and local lawmakers protested in front of Brooklyn Criminal Court and the Brooklyn DA's office after this incident. You have active, engaged and compassionate public defenders in that region. I am thankful for every single one [00:14:02] of you for speaking up, for setting the record straight, for being willing to counter your colleagues, which means you will not get invited to the Mayor's ball. Which means you will not get invited to the judicial campaign banquet. That's what that means. That means you'd rather [00:14:19] be invited to the barbecue than the banquet, thankfully. And I want to say thank you, and there's a whole lot of people who agree with you. Now, here's the reality. Public defenders are underfunded. overworked, their caseload is outrageous, and there's no incentive typically [00:14:43] for them to remain at that job for a long period of time without proper structure and leadership. There's a book written by Mr. John Rappin called Gideon's Promise. John Rapping is a prolific [00:15:01] law professor. He was the law professor in my law school. He wrote the book Gideon's Promise, where he trains public defenders across America on how to obtain additional resources. His [00:15:18] nonprofit will directly contribute and support. I've had the great pleasure of being the host of their fundraiser for multiple years in a row. and also a guest. getting his promises so prolific and how they train public defenders. That part of my story is connected to a public [00:15:40] defender because of enhanced services from their nonprofit. Now is a 17 year old young man being a knucklehead and making immature decisions. I was a juvenile being prosecuted as an adult. I was facing 20 years in prison. public defender named Dale Bacon advocated for me, defended [00:16:03] me. And I was able to get something called the First Offenders Act and five years probation. That public defender was smart, understood how to utilize resources external to the court, [00:16:20] and filed every motion she could. Years later, I find out she was trained by Gideon's promise, an organization to train public defender. If we talk about criminal justice reform, we cannot [00:16:37] talk about criminal justice reform without talking about public defenders because public defenders touch the people every day that we're advocating for. All right, Senator, it's insane that they had this woman handcuffed and normative court procedures going on while giving birth to a [00:16:55] human being. Indeed, Doc, and thanks for sharing your story in that book, Gideon's Promise. I'm gonna have to put that on my list to get, but yeah, the whole system needs to be reformed. As you were talking and laying this out, was thinking cruel and unusual punishment. is [00:17:12] poverty is a crime. System is already predisposed to treat people who come from or who have a certain socioeconomic status a certain way. And that way usually is a presumption of they [00:17:28] did something wrong. It is a presumption of guilt or presumption of something they that something is wrong with them. It's just automatic. And it doesn't mean they're not good people in the system. I mean, this story illustrates that there are some good people in the system willing to put it all on the line. But we're talking about the system itself and not just [00:17:48] individuals who have clarity about what real justice is. Just big up to Jen and the Legal Aid Society and all of our colleagues as you laid out. I wanna give my thanks right along with you for them being willing. to make a sacrifice. No, they won't get invited to any [00:18:03] of those things, but they can have their own little party. They don't need them. The fact that oh Ms. Rendinzo did not, because it seems there may be some truth to the police report [00:18:18] in that she felt sick and I hope that they did take her to the hospital and all of that, and that she did not disclose that she was pregnant. I'm not so sure that would have made a difference or not, but let's just argue that all of what they said is true. The minute she went into labor though, they should have comported themselves differently, but they did not. They went the [00:18:40] extreme way. So what Jen says is probably true as well. So more than one thing can be true at one time. um You gave the three things that she could have been doing with those drugs. I'm inclined to think don't have anything to back this up that maybe she was using, but [00:18:57] she could have been. There are, there's a term crimes of despair. know, drug use, as you said, is a mental health thing. That is one of those people still in food is another. There's so many of those where people are, they just so desperate that they have a crime of despair. [00:19:18] This would be one of them because most women who are pregnant, if they are in their right mind, would not use drugs because they know that those drugs could cross the placenta. So was there something else that law enforcement could have done other than arrest this woman? [00:19:35] The 88 % increase in misdemeanors from 2021 to 2024 cash cow. To me, just seems like Brooklyn is looking for a way to not only make money, but also as you pointed out, I want to add [00:19:51] something to it. Not only are the judges trying to keep their jobs, but everybody in the system has to find a way to justify their job. So the system itself is not designed to try to help people before they get too deep in the system. No, they want you all dead up deep into the [00:20:07] system so that they can create rationale for their jobs and keep collecting money. My last point, yeah, birth is a trauma. I'm still traumatized. And my baby is 35 years old, I'm still traumatized. [00:20:27] And we know what the stats say about black women and the maternal death rates among black women higher than that of other women in third world countries. It is still a sin and a shame. And my grandmother used to say, giving birth is like death walking around your bed about [00:20:44] 10 times. So maybe she said a 20, she couldn't even say 100, but it's intense. And so I love how Attorney Jen laid out that even under the best circumstances, the type of trauma and emotional impacts that just given birth has just in general. And then when you overlay [00:21:04] this with the fact that they didn't even treat this woman with the dignity that she deserved, there needs to be a full investigation. I got this in my notes, full investigation. And whichever entity, whether it's the local, I don't know if it's local funding for this court [00:21:22] or regional funding for this court or state funding. It seems like a local court. Wherever they get any funding from, those are the people who should investigate. So if it's local funding, the Mayor Madami, we're looking at you, We're looking at you. Because courts are funded, [00:21:38] and that funding comes through the city councils, at least in the city of Cleveland. We have local regional courts. We have a county court, and we have local courts as well. So full investigation. There should be some repercussions and consequences for these officers of the court that did not [00:21:57] comport themselves in a way that shows that they have dignity and they understand what real or to show her dignity and show that they understand what real justice means. Now, this is really sad on so many levels and you laid out that other deaths, this court based on [00:22:14] the information that we have so far is a problem. And I bet you there are other transgressions. that we don't even know about. Absolutely, absolutely. And I would say this in closing. I know people are going to talk about, well, she's using drugs and pregnant. Well, let's say that's [00:22:31] true. Let's say that's true. That means she needs help. This system has not provided that. The system is not set up to provide it, nor do they seem to care about providing a remedy, but they do care about providing a punitive penalty in order to get money. And as long [00:22:47] as they can get that, then the cycle remains. So she needs help if that's the case, and we should have an apparatus to assist her and her child to create remedy. Number two, I believe the police are lying. And here's why. What cop takes somebody to the hospital for a misdemeanor [00:23:07] use of drugs, and you tell that cop you feel sick, and the cop says, oh, I gotta take you to the hospital. We have never seen the police. take a suspect to the hospital for complaining about being high. That has never happened, and I don't believe it happened this time. But [00:23:27] rest assured, after she came from the hospital, they definitely knew she was pregnant then, and still decided to put her hands behind her back, shackle her, and put her inside of that arraignment court.